Official Luthiers Forum!

Well FedEx is trying to deny my claim. Their reason was poor packing. When I provided proof of how I packed it they have changed their tune. They now wanted a repair quote from me or a written statement why it could not be repaired. I provided both showing it would actually cost more to disassemble, repair and replace as needed to meet my craftsmanship and warranty requirements to fill the contract as stated.

I gave them a possible repair quote of $1667 to replace the sides and neck as many pieces of both are crushed and not glue-able in some areas. This amount included labor to disassemble, fabricate replacement parts repair, reassemble and refinish plus intonation and set-up.

I also explained in plain English the risk associated with a side replacement repair and stated that this is the reason i deem it non-repairable.

I also told them I understood that it was their job to protect their companies interest on this claim and it was mine to fulfill the commission with the client, but will now be my attorneys job to protect my interest on this claim. So I walked down to my attorney's office and handed over this claim for him to handle.

Game on!!!!! MichaelP39057.7213425926

Alright, Michael, give 'em h^&*! Sounds like at least they're you've got their attention.

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now known around here as Pat Foster
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http://www.patfosterguitars.com

Good luck, Michael. It's always disappointing when one has to incur legal costs to resolve such issues. Make sure your claim includes recovery of attorney fees.

We're pulling for you man. Keep us posted.

Also, if anyone has a better source for safely transporting fragile guitars, I'm sure others would be interested.

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JJ
Napa, CA
http://www.DonohueGuitars.com

JJ, I think there a 'white glove' service available through most carrier companies? However, I can imagine the costs must be astronomical...

Michael, best of luck with this claim... They have lots of money and they can well afford to pay. What I'd like to see is that the person responsible looses his job! Now that would be justice...

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I'd like to be able to prove, just for once, that money wouldn't make me happy...

Your time and effort is worth WAY more than that Michael .. NO repair shop that I know of near me could replace the sides, save the top and back, make a new neck then assemble and refinish for double that !!!

the best shop here in Toronto where I consign charges 1000+ just to refinish ....

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Tony Karol
www.karol-guitars.com
"let my passion .. fulfill yours"

Good luck Michael, you have our complete support my friend!

I think they should run at your offer!! I would try to claim for the full amount!!

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Peter M.
Cornerstone Guitars
http://www.cornerstoneukes.com

I am setting here boiling now. It was best that I turned it over to my attorney at this point.

    If enough people who ship numerous high end guitars per year will drop a
quick note to FedEx making reference to Michael's claim and the repsonse
he got from them, it may make an impact on the situation.

    We can threaten to use another carrier...even though all are equally
careless and destructive, but numbers make a point.

    Good luck Michael. I'm going to pop a note out to them tomorrow to let
them know that I just got a heads up on how they treat a claim for damage
that was the result of obvious abuse and neglect of the package.

We'll be hoping for the best outcome,
Kevin Gallagher/Omega Guitars

Michael,
Do explain that you have a thousand or so guitar shipping luthiers watching to see how this is handled, and how we might expect be treated should this happen to us.

Michael,
   Good luck on this! It is crazy it even has to involve legal action.

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Brad
Avon, OH

Bast******ds
Go get em!!!!

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Andy Z.
http://www.lazydogguitars.com

Takin' names and kickin' end graft! Good luck, Michael!

Michael-
Did you ask how much your attorney is going to charge you for this? It can easily cost > $300 for a single letter and one or two phone calls. FedEx is not going to pay legal fees unless a judge and/or jury makes them. It can take a year or longer before these things finally go to court,and that is not a bit of fun, especially if you lose. They have very deep pockets, and if they turn it over to their legal department you will be in for a long haul.
I am hesitant to give advice but it is possible you could come out ahead by continuing to negotiate on your own.I have had lots of experience with the legal system and it is slow, expensive and frustrating.( A neighbor sued me, claiming I put a power pole on her property. The power company gave me a document stating the pole was placed in the 1960s, but it took me 18 months and $12k to convince the judge). Lawyers have no impetus to settle things quickly and cheaply.
JMHO

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It's not the miles ahead, it's the stone in your shoe


In Markham,Virginia

I have done a bit of dealing in second hand instruments and shipping always scares me so i overpack things....can't be to careful...
I think from now on if i have to ship anything I will take photos w/date stamp of the actual packing process as well just so there is firm proof of how you hold up your end of the bargain by providing a well packaged item...so that only neglect could be the cause of damage.
Good luck michael...it really irritates me when you pay for a service which invariably is keeping these companies operating and they treat their customers like this....

They need to streamline their business by making each person accountable by signing off on the fact that it was in good condition before they handed over to the next person in the delivery process....and weed these people out of their system ...because obviously they go unpunished ..otherwise it wouldn't keep re-occurring.gratay39057.9436921296

If it comes down to a "court fight", have you checked with you locale re: Small Claims Court, their $$$ limits, etc.?
You get to represent yourself, no attorny present and the other party has to show up, also without an attorney, to rebutt, dispute or disprove your claim.
If you prevail, with all your packing evidence, etc. you would end up with a Judgement against the other party (at least it was that way in California long ago). Then, if the other party does not satisfy that Judgement, you can go after seizure of their property to satisfy the amount owed. It's a bit of a hassle, but if you're going to get hosed over, you may as well take this on as a "side hobby" just to yank their chain.
You might also post the deatils of this action on a website that search engines will find and spit up on Google if and when a search is made for FedEx and their reliability, service, etc.

Go get 'em and good luck.....and get that Heritage Insurance for your future work, supplies AND shipping.

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Hank Mauel

Michael, i think that you are a wise man, Please, don't let the lack of justice on their part get you to bring this cause to the tribunals, as Jon Nixon said, you could see all your savings go in the lawyer's fees so quickly that it would be very hard to turn back because you'd have spent so much already and expecting results soon by a system that devoures even the rich people.

Keith's advice to let them know that more than a 1000 sets of eyes are watching carefully their behavior should help IMHO too. A 1000 person that are against you can degenerate into many thousands of people and millions of dollars that they would risk loosing, you have that card up your sleeve Michael, i'd say use it before going to court my friend.

Best regards

Serge

I am over small claims if I sue for full replacement.

Serge I think that would come across as a threat and just worsen the situation. Any out cry from the community has to have my hand uninvolved to be effective, and I have my doubts about it doing any good anyway.

good luck. FedEx can fight a nasty fight.

I know you are mad about this Michael -- and I don't blame you. But I think you will lose if you sue.

Not because you don't have a case, but because they will lawyer you to death. They know you won't spent 20k chasing a $5k claim.

I would go with the PITA strategy. Call them every single day... sometimes twice a day asking about the "status". They will pay you just to make you go away.

Trust me... I have done this before and it works. It is a big pain, but it is for them too. Just start harassing them in a civil but driven way and you will get your claim.

:-)

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Brock Poling
Columbus, Ohio
http://www.polingguitars.com

Brock, I think that is very sensible advice.

Good luck, Michael!

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"Building guitars looks hard, but it's actually much harder than it looks." Tom Buck

It's a little known fact that the claims people are SUPPOSED to act this way. They will make it look like it's your fault on the slim chance that you will let it slide and they won't have to make a claim.
Michael, I'm glad to see that you actually lawyered up. It is, in many states, a crime to threated legal action and not follow through with it. And these big companies know that so a persons threat can turn into a criminal action against them if they don't follow through with it.
I've said it befor and I'll say it again.
UNITED STATED POSTAL SERVICE REGISTERED PRIORITY MAIL
It never touches an automated machine or conveyer belt. It's carried to and fro by a person that has signed a log saying he/she did so (so there's accountability). If it isn't actually moving in a truck or plane, it's is locked in a cage inside the post office. So it never sits on a dock or in a big brown heat box. Best of all, it's cheaper than any other carrier. This is because of the extra safety measures taken, thus insurance is very inexpensive. The maximum size you can ship is 108" length plus girth and most standard guitar boxes are 105". The seams all have to be sealed with paper tape and no plastic tape can be used on the box. this is so they can date stamp all of the seams as a "tamper proof" type security measure. I've never had to make a claim but then the boxes don't have so much as a dented corner when they arrive. It's worth the hassle.

[QUOTE=Brock Poling]
I know you are mad about this Michael -- and I don't blame you. But I think you will lose if you sue.

Not because you don't have a case, but because they will lawyer you to death. They know you won't spent 20k chasing a $5k claim.

I would go with the PITA strategy. Call them every single day... sometimes twice a day asking about the "status". They will pay you just to make you go away.

Trust me... I have done this before and it works. It is a big pain, but it is for them too. Just start harassing them in a civil but driven way and you will get your claim.

:-)

[/QUOTE]

I would strongly agree. I have had Several claims with Fedex. Basically in my daytime job we occasionally ship a large number of laptops (50-75) over seas for training. We use FedEx Custom Critical White Gloves services for this. We use custom made shipping container for this. 1-5 times something goes wrong. Fork lifts through the cases, you name it. Claims have been a nightmare. Some taking as much as 1 year. Best thing to do… you’ve sent the shawshank redemption right? Send a letter everyday. (call)


Just my 2cents

The customer service people of big companies are not usually empowered to make any decisions. I learned the following "trick" from a boss of mine when I had to make a USP claim (not a guitar) some time ago.
"hello this is Trixie, how can I help you?"
"Hi Trixie, my name is Paul Woolson, can you please tell me the name of your direct supervisor?" (This stated in a very pleasant, not threatening voice)
"Sure her name is Linda"
"And Trixie, could you tell me the name of Linda's direct supervisor please?"
At this point they usually get a bit flustered.
"Uh, his name is Bob"
"And what is Bob's extension number"
If you get it, you now have the ear of a person that can make decisions. This is the person you want to call daily or twice a day to get your problem solved.
If Trixie says she can't give that information, at least get her direct supervisors direct extension number and try to get the information from Linda.
I had good luck with this. Use the person's name when speaking to them as it shows them that you know who to report if they act up.